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TOPIC: New Theatre what does digital do to the design?

Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 13 Jan 2008 08:42 #29550

  • jacker5
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Bottom line you will need a booth regardless of digital or film. This guy who started the question is obviously confused and was thinking of a digital projector you use to project DVDS on a screen.
Not a pro digital projector (4k or 2k ) to use for first run features with true digital quality and sound.
It is crazy to think your going to have a digital projector(200+ Pounds) hovering in the air over your audience.
Save time trying to figure that out and just add a booth to your plans!
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 13 Jan 2008 09:04 #29551

  • sevstar
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First question that comes to my mind is. Would the local / state building codes allow that type of design plan for projector placement.
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 14 Jan 2008 14:13 #29552

  • dsschoenborn
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Building codes?

Last time I checked there are no specific codes from the state on how to place your equipment. If you are referring to weight see previous post. I have lights that weigh that and I access to relamp and clean without a problem because they were designed to do that. What the building codes would state is that you can not hang weight on certain parts of the roof truss but that is first year engineering school stuff.
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 14 Jan 2008 14:56 #29553

  • slapintheface
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You are at best 10 8- 10 years away from that kind of digital projector that can hang....Some day maybe.......
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 14 Jan 2008 18:50 #29554

  • Ken Layton
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dsschoenborn:
<B>Building codes?

Last time I checked there are no specific codes from the state on how to place your equipment. If you are referring to weight see previous post. I have lights that weigh that and I access to relamp and clean without a problem because they were designed to do that. What the building codes would state is that you can not hang weight on certain parts of the roof truss but that is first year engineering school stuff.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Check out "places of assembly - movie theaters". Usually the building code specifies 'projection machines/machinery' must be installed in a dedicated room for that purpose.

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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 15 Jan 2008 10:26 #29555

  • dsschoenborn
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If you have never been to a concert in the last 15 years maybe you have been to Showest or Showeast or some other large venue. They have old digital projectors ( These are the ones TI first used and all this technology is based on but TI would not sell it to others ) hanging over your head. They normally have 2 stacked. These weigh probably more than 2 or 3 times what current projectors weigh. They are on a temporary system suspended with chain lifts. ( Sounds like building codes should stop all of that )
Check the specs from BARCO, as I said earlier, they already have 2K projectors made for hanging. If you build a platform you could probably hang any projector if it was reliable and not like some of the early models. The technology that is used is old stuff that TI invented a long time ago. Putting the affordable box around it has been the problem. The keystone correction should not be anymore than conventional because now it probably would have about where your booth is. In the future it should probably hang closer to the screen to provide better light and use less energy. Your lens is going to be expensive at that throw but certainly doable.

The building code is probably from fire codes which all got stated in Chicago after a big theatre fire. I don't think these projectors use flammable products and are not a fire hazard so yes maybe some issues like this need to be addressed because they are based on old technology. The booth should be a fire proof room according to a lot of codes, again because film used to catch fire and burn the building down when these were written. The definition in these codes probably don't even define the current digital machine as projection equipment. Weight and access are engineering issues which can easily be overcome and so are not issues at all.

This thread was started to see what changes we could all think about when building new in a digital age. How the building can change, what new areas you could add, how flow and shape would change because you will not be restricted to building with one long booth across the top of the building. These things save the owners money which make digital viable for us, the owners, not the studios and not the really the public. The public will benefit from the new things we can do to make their experience memorable. For some reason everyone thinks things are too heavy. Weight is not an issue because large lights and other ornamentation all hangs over your head in almost every large building you walk through, you just never look up and wonder why it doesn't fall down on you. These things weigh more than one little projector. And yes I said little compared to the space my booth equipment takes today. They will continue to get smaller ( Moore's law) and/or more equipment may be packed into the same size box but function as maybe the server and projector and something else because it has all gotten smaller. Lets think of some new stuff or where we can build a theatre with this in mind that otherwise would have been cost prohibitive.
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 15 Jan 2008 18:25 #29556

  • lionheart
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The possibilities are interesting. If one had a reliable digital projection system that would only require occassional hands-on attention, then perhaps it would be possible to eliminate the booth at some point, at least the booth as we know it. My thoughts about the possible future follow.

Why not suspend it from the ceiling? Maybe it could be accessed by such things as ladders and catwalks. I have space above the ceiling because I have a fairly steep pitched roof, so it would be possible to get out to the projector without too much trouble. Projection angle doesn't have to be a problem if the projector could be suspended low enough to place it in the normal projection path. You wouldn't have to keep it right up next to the ceiling because it won't be in the way of anything. Besides, seems to me that typical digital data projectors are often ceiling mounted and include built in keystone correction. Hopefully an advanced digital projector would do the same or better. A quiet box might be necessary, but it's not really that big a deal.

The controls could be just about anywhere, such as the manager's office, behind the concession counter, behind the screen, in a storage closet, etc. This will make it possible to arrange auditoriums in ways that are not currently possible. No longer would they all need to be anchored at one end by the booth. Want to split a house front and back, but don't want two separate booths at the back and middle of the space? Then perhaps you could put controls for both in one place. Of course, someone still needs to check image and sound. That way problems can be controlled.

Bringing the projector forward in the room should make it possible to have lower ceilings because of the steeper projection angle (assuming that distortion can be controlled digitally).

Is the current technology ready to make all this happen? Many of you know better than I do. But if and when it is ready, theater construction can and will change. Building codes should change with changing technology, otherwise we would never have advances in any building material or technique

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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 22 Jan 2008 14:02 #29557

  • NSCInemas
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You definately need a projection booth wether you go with DLP or not. The current DLP projectors use a conventional lamp house with a conventional rectifier these need to be housed in an area seperate from the auditorium, you also need to be able to access the lamphouse for bulb change and maintenance. These machines also have exhaust fans and the lamphouse should be vented to the outside with a rooftop fan unit and this is not something you would want in an auditorium, you also need to house the sound rack because DLP's use a conventional sound processor and amplifiers again not something you want out in the auditorium. I think you would be better off going with a good quality 35mm system, not only can the picture quality be SUPERIOR to DLP if the film is handled properly and not scratched or dirtied the sound quality is the same with a good digital sound system and you will save big bucks! Good Luck!

Remember folks DLP is not all its cracked up to be. The resolution of a DLP projector is not even close to that of a 35mm film print. As long as you employ well trained professional projectionists who handle the film properly you will give your customers a better product with 35mm.
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 11 Feb 2008 12:36 #29558


I couldn,t agree more.I work with NEC 800,s.They are big bulky things and make a lot more noise than conventional machines.The fan noise would be unbearable.They give a good presentation but not as good as a film projector.
George.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NSCInemas:
<B>You definately need a projection booth wether you go with DLP or not. The current DLP projectors use a conventional lamp house with a conventional rectifier these need to be housed in an area seperate from the auditorium, you also need to be able to access the lamphouse for bulb change and maintenance. These machines also have exhaust fans and the lamphouse should be vented to the outside with a rooftop fan unit and this is not something you would want in an auditorium, you also need to house the sound rack because DLP's use a conventional sound processor and amplifiers again not something you want out in the auditorium. I think you would be better off going with a good quality 35mm system, not only can the picture quality be SUPERIOR to DLP if the film is handled properly and not scratched or dirtied the sound quality is the same with a good digital sound system and you will save big bucks! Good Luck!

Remember folks DLP is not all its cracked up to be. The resolution of a DLP projector is not even close to that of a 35mm film print. As long as you employ well trained professional projectionists who handle the film properly you will give your customers a better product with 35mm.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 19 Feb 2008 18:42 #29559

  • dsschoenborn
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Here is a topic for the Showest university. Do you think Jack reads these forms?

Thursday March 13
9:15 am “Theatre of the Future”

Jack Panzeca, CEO, Universal Cinema Services, Inc.

This is another topic on Wed. Both are on my list of must attends for showest.

2:30pm “What Every Independent Theatre Owner Should Know About Digital Cinema”

Michael Karagosian, President, MKPE Consulting, LLC & NATO Digital Cinema Consultant




[This message has been edited by dsschoenborn (edited February 19, 2008).]
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 19 Feb 2008 22:25 #29560

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dsschoenborn:
Do you think Jack reads these forms?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably not, but it doesn't matter. You are going to get digital crammed down your throat every minute of every session at ShoWest. It gets really old afer a very short while whether you're pro digital or not. It's as if there is nothing else to discuss in the movie industry.

If you can remember, please raise your hand and ask about your hanging projector theory. I think we would all be interested to hear what other professionals think about the idea.
"In a place like this, the magic is all around you. The trick is to see it." -Martin Landau
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 01 Mar 2008 17:58 #29561

Okay the idea of the hanging projector might be interesting but do away with the booth, what savings is there? You still need a hallway between auditoriums. You still need a sound rack's, electric breaker boxes for each and every auditorium, the computers and networking for the digital cinema and yes it would be beneficial for the operator to actually look in at the picture for some place he can make adjustments from time to time.

Unless we intend he walk in and do it from the floor with remote in front of the patrons.
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 17 Nov 2008 23:19 #30366

  • debo
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"World's First Boothless Multiplex Opens"

cinematreasures.org/news/19999_0_1_0_M3/

They suspended platforms about 10 feet off the floor at the back of the auditorium and shielded the projector for noise. That should be easily reachable with a decent ladder for any immediate needs.

Does this change anyone's mind? I'll be building from the ground up, and I'd like to avoid the booth costs if possible. Anyone have any idea how much would be saved by eliminating the booth (per screen or per square foot for the total building)?
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 18 Nov 2008 10:08 #30372

  • dsschoenborn
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Well this is exactly what I was talking about. You have a central control room that can monitor every auditorium as well as were the operator runs the TMS.

My architect estimated that on a 10 million dollar project eliminating the booth would save you over a million dollars. That is 10% or more of your costs. So yes it is very much worth doing. If they get the fan noise down then the enclosure could be eliminated too. Cooling is taken care of by blowing cold air into the air intake so you should need less air movement to dissipate the heat which would be less noise. I think an outer shroud with cool air being pumped into would probably still be best so people are not avoided by the blinking lights on the back or side.
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Re:New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 18 Nov 2008 11:30 #30374

  • Ken Layton
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Yeh but that "central control room" won't let you see exactly what's on the screen in the particular auditorium nor will it let you hear what's coming out of the speakers in the auditoium either. With a regular booth the projectionist can easily look out the port window to see exactly what the image looks like and make any adjustments needed right away.

Wait till you you've got to set up a ladder in the middle of a show and climb up to the "projector" to quiet a screeching fan. All while the customers are yelling at you. Don't forget some smart alek kids can throw half-filled soda pop cups and popcorn tubs up there onto that 'platform'. Then the dried soda attracts flies buzzing through the projected image.
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