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TOPIC: New Theatre what does digital do to the design?

New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 08 Jan 2008 10:11 #29535

  • dsschoenborn
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So in a new building I am guessing Digital would be the only way to go because of building savings. Please check my assumptions:

1. Digital is the way of the future if we like the payback model or not.

2. No Booth so I won't need the second floor. Digital can hang from ceiling. Just need an equipment room. Major $$$$ savings in construction and building design.
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 08 Jan 2008 11:21 #29536

  • slapintheface
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2k ,4k digital dont hang ...you need a projection booth...
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 08 Jan 2008 11:27 #29537

  • rodeojack
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No comment on #1. Just starts too many fight right now.

On #2: Are the smaller cinema-quality projectors quiet enough to hang in the auditorium with the audience? The larger ones (4K) sure aren't. Do you have full access to all controls by remote (possibly)? Is there nothing you would want to get to the projector for while it's running?

I know that they do this in businesses and for display purposes, but I wonder about putting the projector out of reach in the exhibition forum.

No big deal? Perhaps, but I can see something like that making old-time film jockys a bit uneasy!

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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 08 Jan 2008 13:56 #29538

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This idea came from Barco so yes we are talking real movie digital systems here. I am just learning more now so I will keep updates posted. I had hoped some architech might comment here on what they know.

You will need to get to the projector for maintenance but other than that I think everything is controlled from the computer consol anyway. I would need an isle that I can get a small man lift into to get to the projector.
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 08 Jan 2008 18:39 #29539

  • Mike
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we have a video projector hung on the ceiling 22' off the floor and I hold my breath every day because of going down at showtime: if I had any chance at all I'd have a booth.

Michael Hurley
Impresario
Michael Hurley
Impresario
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 08 Jan 2008 19:07 #29540

  • Ken Layton
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You still need physical access to that video projector _during_ the show.
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 08 Jan 2008 19:09 #29541

  • slapintheface
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Has anyone ever seen a 4k or 2k projector hung????????
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 09 Jan 2008 09:48 #29542

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Why would you need access to it during the show? I have been in a booth with digital and all the interface for running it is done on the computer. It did have a lot of lights on the back of it but again the compter told the operator all they needed to know.
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 09 Jan 2008 11:26 #29543

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have you seen the size of these machines ?10 years from now it may .2K & 4K LAMPS GIVE OFF A LOT OF HEAT AND NEED GOOD VENTALATION WICH YOU CAN NOT GET BY HANGING.
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 09 Jan 2008 12:33 #29544

  • Ken Layton
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dsschoenborn:
Why would you need access to it during the show? I have been in a booth with digital and all the interface for running it is done on the computer. It did have a lot of lights on the back of it but again the compter told the operator all they needed to know. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sometimes things happen that require you to take off a side panel to see what's going on. Sometimes you may need to reseat a circuit board. Sometimes the air vents get clogged. Sometimes you may need to unplug/plug a connector.

There also may be times a lamp may not strike and you need to see what it's doing. Some of the circuit boards have status LED's that you might need to look at/for if there's a problem.

Remember problems can occur at ANY time so complete and easy access is needed at all times.

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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 09 Jan 2008 12:46 #29545

  • Cinemateer
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The AccessIT guys said hanging is not only not possible because of the huge size and weight, it's hardly recommended since you need to access the projector so often. Changing bulbs, cleaning the filters, etc. These projectors are HUGE- not much smaller than a 35mm projector, if at all. I sure wouldn't want to shut down a show just because I can't reach something on the projector before/during a show. Plus, I would think you would want your "equipment room" to have visual access to the auditorium. In other words, a booth in the back.

Besides... when your digital system goes down, it's only smart to have a 35mm projector standing by to rescue you.
"In a place like this, the magic is all around you. The trick is to see it." -Martin Landau
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 09 Jan 2008 20:50 #29546

  • rodeojack
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Besides... when your digital system goes down, it's only smart to have a 35mm projector standing by to rescue you.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but I understand that once you're provided a digital print, the studios won't allow a 35mm to be shipped.

That may not be the case with everyone, but I've heard it, and saw the paperwork from one of the studios, saying such.
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 10 Jan 2008 11:20 #29547

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rodeojack:
Yeah, but I understand that once you're provided a digital print, the studios won't allow a 35mm to be shipped.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right about that print, but I was thinking more long-term here. You could keep using 35mm until the digital projector is fixed. If I understand correctly, digital projector repairs can cost big bucks and may take awhile, so I could easily see theater owners using 35mm until they can afford to repair their digitals. In my opinion, the cost of maintaining and repairing digital projectors is being sorely underestimated.
"In a place like this, the magic is all around you. The trick is to see it." -Martin Landau
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 12 Jan 2008 11:46 #29548

  • dsschoenborn
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Too Heavy too big?
Well they weigh around 250 pounds according to the tech specs. That is nothing to hang. Access IT are your computer networking experts not construction engineers. I can have a platform suspended for it to sit on if they don't have hanging points by the time I want one. Besides many of us have lights that weigh more than that hanging in the auditoriums now. We are in showbiz. Look up at a concert. There are tons of equipment hanging up there from a few hang points including digital projectors.

Big? Yes they may be the size of a conventional projector but there are no films going in and out so they can sit flat a platform with no need for film and platters. The space you need is minimal as compared with conventional equipment.

Heat?
At Showest they have let you hold your hand on the vent and it was just warm not hot. The air needs to flow freely. I have been in several convention booths with no special venting.

Sound of the fans concerns me. At this time they are designing for retro fits and so noise is not a concern. The only noise would be from fans and they have solved noise issues on the small digital projects years ago so I am sure they can on the these large ones easily too.

Time?
Well it may be a year or so early to talk about this but not 10 years. With Moore’s Law these things will be 1/3 to 1/4 their current size in 10 years. So far I have found that a traditional booth is not needed in a new build even today. A limited booth or some sort of area behind the auditorium with limited access via a catwalk and man lifts for installation might be more realistic at this time.

Costs:
If you don't have to build a second floor on a theatre that would save sooo much money it would pay for the manlift and cat walk 10 times in the first year. Just building the booth on a 10 plex could cost 1 million in constrcution and design. That's before equipment. If we are going to pay 300% more in cost of ownership for digital then we have to save $$$ in other places.


[This message has been edited by dsschoenborn (edited January 14, 2008).]
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Re: New Theatre what does digital do to the design? 12 Jan 2008 19:12 #29549

  • rodeojack
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Noise from air handling may be an issue, unless you plan to hang an enclosure for the projector (elevated booth?). The big ones I've seen weren't anything I'd want hanging over my audience.

Besides... seems to me that hanging in the auditorium would necessitate electronic keystone correction. By nature, that would guarantee using less than all available space on the chip. Would that infer a trade of quality for location convenience?
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