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TOPIC: Sand And Salt

Sand And Salt 09 Sep 2004 10:53 #28689

With winter comming I'm thinking of all that sand and salt they put the sidewalks and I find myself wondering if there is any way to keep that leathel combination off my lobby carpet. Does anyone have any advice they may shed some light on this problem?
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Re: Sand And Salt 09 Sep 2004 17:21 #28690

  • leeler
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I bought four large 3x5 doormats and I have them placed strategically to catch as much of the stuff as possible in the traffic line from the door to the register. Make sure you get the thickest ones so that they trap as much debris as possible. This plus keepoing an eye on the area outside the front door is the best I've come up with.
"What a crazy business"
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Re: Sand And Salt 10 Sep 2004 08:18 #28691

  • jimor
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There is one other method of eliminating ice that may be justified for those in heavy winter climates: the use of a commercial propane torch device designed to be directed a few inches from the sidewalk and its cage-encased flame will melt the ice. There is no residue of salt or sand, and most of the moisture evaporates. It is no doubt somewhat more expensive than salt or sand, but the mess problem is solved if you have a source of butane/propane bottles nearby, though they are also available via shipment to you. The only drawback is that there must be sufficient drainage toward the gutter that the melted water from heavy ice or snow will have somewhere to go other than under your doors! When I did a Google search under the trade name "Weed burner" I got 56,000 hits! (but that no doubt accounted for lower down listings under both words separately). Here is one maker with multiple models: http://www.flameengineering.com/Red_Dragon_Propane_Torch_K.html
Even Amazon.com got into it with a small $60 model: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006L9KT/002-0662924-9204834?v=glance
And that tool powerhouse, Brookstone, also sells one for only $35, though I wonder how long the tiny but lightweight bottle of propane would last under heavy use? Here is a photo of it: http://www.brookstone.com/shop/product.asp?product_code=290940&world_code=3&category_code=35&subcategory_code=475&search_type=subcategory&cm_ven=Search&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=Bidword &cm_ite=weed%20burner
(if that LONG URL doesn't work, go to [url=http://www.brookstone.com,]www.brookstone.com,[/url] under Hard-to-Find-Tools>Outdoor Living>Lawn&Garden>Landscaping Tools>Weed Burner).

Of course, while the sight of someone using a flame to melt ice in winter may attract attention to your establishment, one has to consider the sight of an inept employee burning him/herself with the thing if they are the clumsy type. I guess it is one of those tools one has to carefully evaluate in light of those likely to use it, refill it, store it, etc. It does NOT require great brain power, but today's kids tend to have little to spare for such non-computer items.
Jim R. (new E-mail: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ) member: www.HistoricTheatres.org
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Re: Sand And Salt 10 Sep 2004 11:33 #28692

  • John Pytlak
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Does anyone have heated sidewalks to keep them ice-free? Some Kodak buildings in Rochester had plastic pipe buried in the concrete, with heated glycol solution going through it. But the heat was inexpensive, since they used the spare used steam from Kodak's coal-fired power plant to heat the water. Heating with electric coils or a dedicated boiler would likely be cost-prohibitive, and may not even be allowed in the name of energy conservation.

John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
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Eastman Kodak Company
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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Customer Technical Services
Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Eastman Kodak Company
Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Telephone: +1 585-477-5325 Fax: +1 585-722-7243
E-Mail: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
Website: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
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Re: Sand And Salt 10 Sep 2004 12:56 #28693

  • outaframe
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Yes, track-in can be a real mess during nasty weather... My lobby is terrazzo rather than carpet, so floor damage is not a concern, but the mess and safety are... I have tried everything I could think of over the years, and have never found THE answer... Leeler is doing about all there is to remedy the problem: keeping the outside sidewalk as clean as possible, heavy absorbent mats, ongoing spot cleaning and drying, and constant warnings to "watch your step."...
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Re: Sand And Salt 14 Sep 2004 16:41 #28694

  • crshedd
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the absorbent mats are great but there is more to than throwing them down. they MUST be cleaned on a regular basis. the mats can only hold so much then they are no longer effective.

'hey! there's no party here!'
jeff spicoli
fast times at ridgemont high
'hey! there's no party here!'
jeff spicoli
fast times at ridgemont high
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Re: Sand And Salt 14 Sep 2004 18:29 #28695

  • outaframe
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Yup, they gotta be cleaned!... Best mats are the vinyl ones with the carpet molded into the vinyl... Hang 'em vertically (outside) and hose the mess off (and out)... Lay 'em down and scrub 'em with detergent, then hang 'em verticle again, rinse and let dry... A real pain in cold weather, but this is the best way to clean 'em...

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Re: Sand And Salt 16 Sep 2004 16:27 #28696

Another thing to try is keeping your sidewalks clean. After the ice is melted off - if you are down to bare, dry concrete (and assuming its not currently snowing or icing)- sweep as much as you can off the walkway.
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Re: Sand And Salt 29 Sep 2004 11:41 #28697

Thanks for the advice and ideas. Don't think I'm leaning towards the flame/heated sidewalk methods but will implement other ideas.
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Re: Sand And Salt 16 Oct 2004 08:53 #28698

  • rodeojack
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"Does anyone have heated sidewalks to keep them ice-free?"

I've seen this at a ski resort up here, John. The sidewalk has a slight incline, and (other than direct snowfall) the skiers track snow onto it, so the owners might have been heading off slippage problems there. It isn't all that warm if you put your hand on it, but the system is effective. Once the snow melts, the incline takes the water off to drains installed at the sides and bottom of the walkway.
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Re: Sand And Salt 17 Oct 2004 08:26 #28699

  • jimor
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Heated sidewalks have been around since the '20s, especially in the northern areas of the country, but they are a declining breed after the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973 and the astronomical increase in energy prices since. You know that it takes a LOT of energy to keep a surface above freezing when the air temp is well below it. And the heating method always seems to break down after not too long, and it is VERY expensive to dig it up and repair or replace hence often abandoned and then salted. The initial costs are not cheap either, but nowadays some are spending the extra in view of ever more likely lawsuits should someone slip and fall on your property. Wish there were an easy answer to this situation, but there isn't.
Jim
Jim R. (new E-mail: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ) member: www.HistoricTheatres.org
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