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TOPIC: Pricing Equipment

Re: Pricing Equipment 14 May 2011 19:01 #36048

  • genedo
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I find it interesting that a thread asking about booth pricing has devolved into a judgment of a website and the legitimacy of the name of a corporation that has been in existence for ten years.

That corporation has attorneys that advise about all areas of corporate names, incorporation, etc. not only in one state but two states legal departments. Also to imply that I do not own the name of my company and use it legally is beyond me.

To say in the context of this thread that someone else 'actually owns and legally' uses my legitimate name implies that I do not. Don't need to go into detail but my attorneys thoroughly checked all this out ten years ago. They are different companies and we have never indicated anything to the contrary. They own theirs and we own ours. Their is no conflict other than in the mind of the beholder.

Had it not been for this statement, I probably would have just left it alone. However, I cannot leave this perceived doubt as to the legitimacy of my name out there for a stranger to have the impression that this leaves.

The purpose of the people with honored careers of over 200 years, who have joined Heartland is to help a theater owner with FREE information to help them make a decision about their business. Times are difficult and there is a lot of misunderstanding about digital change.

The help we are offering has no strings attached to the help we provide.
If anyone would or had taken the time to investigate rather than judge they would have found this out.

So, I would leave this particulr thread with words of others rather than my own.

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation
Herbert Spencer
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Re: Pricing Equipment 14 May 2011 23:35 #36049

  • RoxyVaudeville
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I too after having visited the website wondered what the RKO connection was.

I have to assume that you have done as you said and went through all the legalities to copy write the RKO letters for your company. But it does seem a little strange that they would allow a 2nd company to use the exact same letter logo.

We had a brewery in our town, The Northampton Brewing Corporation that among others put out a popular beer called Tru-Blu. The brewery closed in the early 50s, but someone connected to it still owned all the recipes to the beer. A local family wanted to open a mini brew pub under the name The True-Blu Cafe and brew the Tru-Blu beer from the original recipe which they had purchased. When they went through the various channels to register the name, they were stopped in their tracks by Labatt's Breweries of Canada because they have a beer brand called Labatt's Blue. Labatt's Blue vs Tru-Blu. Different name, different spelling, even a different country, yet they weren't allowed to use it. So I have to wonder why they allowed RKO Pictures who has a registered trademark on RKO and your RKO, Inc. to use the same name?

I don’t have the answers, and I’m not taking sides… just wondering.
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Re: Pricing Equipment 15 May 2011 11:50 #36052

  • genedo
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The RKO Corporation was simply the shortened version of their legal name Radio-Keith-Orpheum Corporation and later they did use the slang of the shortened RKO over and again to brand RKO Pictures Corporation and RKO Studios Corporation etc...

I am done with this needless wasteful energy. Simply amazed over slanderous statements made here by some misinformed 'self imposed authority figures.'

Have too much to do helping those struggling with these digital choices.
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Re: Pricing Equipment 15 May 2011 15:13 #36054

  • VPF
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Just because my name is Jacqueline Cynthia Penney and I work in the clothing industry, would not give me the right to create a brand called JC Penney. Same if my name was Timmy McDonald, I couldn't create a restaurant with the name McDonalds.

Although it may be technically legal, it certainly doesn't give the right impression. It reads as if RKO is endorsing you and your product/service. Especially so since the date you have is 1933 -- when the real RKO was still around. It's disingenuous at best.

What's the need to have it up there? Nothing as far as I can tell other than to lend some fake credence to the website. I'm sure there is some corporate psychology involved in placing RKO up there. Your extensive background, including that of author, I would think would give you pause to use that reference in the movie theater industry.

If you were selling tractors, no one would care, because they obviously aren't related.

-VPF
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Re: Pricing Equipment 15 May 2011 15:40 #36055

  • AllenD
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My original question about the use of RKO on Gene's website was just curiosity.
RKO went through many incarnations. They owned, were owned by and operated by a wide diversity of companies. As such the RKO logo was used by many different companies from time to time, all with some genuine connection to the original company.
RKO operated a movie distributor, a physical facility, and movie theatres.
Their product has been distributed by Paramount and Universal. RKO once distributed Walt Disney films. Warner Brothers seem to control their home video and TV distribution.
Successor companies have operated TV stations and radio stations. Their product has been controlled by a tire company and a soft drink manufacturer. RKO Theatres operated for decades past the active life of the mother studio (and after the Paramount decree.) It wasn't hard to believe that some technical company had survived.
Registered company names are marked by an R or T in a circle to show their "registered" or "trademarked" designation.
Using the iconic name of a film distributor and exhibitiion company on a company that is in the film business but not connected to the original company is, to be polite, "odd."
AllenD
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Re: Pricing Equipment 15 May 2011 21:02 #36057

  • rufusjack
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Gene,

I would also suggest that you might be getting a bit more grief as you are the most active on this db of steering people to your business (much more than others have done). I have noticed that you have not participated recently on Film-Tech. I would imagine that group would be much harder on you, especially if you were indirectly pushing your business.
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Re: Pricing Equipment 16 May 2011 13:09 #36060

  • Mike
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Hi folks/ I have been away from a computer, gasp!, for the last 6 days.

1, rko has a TM for their name as it appears with a lightning bolt but it does not matter: trademarks, patents, etc. are defensive legal tools. If they want to come after someone it is up to them and really: dissecting someone's name of their business? Please spare us. Take it off line if you want to give someone a hard time. I have patents and trademarks and it is a murky field that few are entitled to comment on. I loved it when we added Dreamland name to one of our auditoriums and suddenly had a Mass. theatre Dreamland lawyer threatening us. I said "I'd love the publicity! Bring it on. " and never heard again.

2 promoting your business is a bad thing? Sorry.....That is one major reason we are here. People routinely offer their services as consultants, suppliers, buyers, try to buy-sell theatres: again: no criticism for offering services please (unless it gets nuts and it has not in this case)

3. "you have a crappy web site" jeez. Spare us please. Take it off line. Half of our web sites suck. Plenty parts of this one rots.

4. here are some manners: if you don't have anything nice to say, please try and say nothing or say it as nice as you can. Life is short.

5. d-cinema is a complex and expensive undertaking for the smaller theatres. We're in the middle of it. More information is a good thing. Gather it all and sort it out. Let the buyer beware.

Mike

Thanks/ Mike
Michael Hurley
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Last Edit: 16 May 2011 13:12 by Mike.
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Re: Pricing Equipment 16 May 2011 14:40 #36062

  • VPF
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revrobar -- I'm going to be snotty in this post.

1) Mike, you stole a trademark as well. Nice. I'm glad we are promoting the positive side of the business. Basically, if you can get away with it, you should do it? That's a great motto. I suggest that all theater owners should find a trademark they like and then put it on their own facility in order to "gain publicity". In this industry, of all industries, where we fight trademark and copyright infringement through illegal distribution and copying on the Internet, to simply say "bring it on" when it comes to stealing and infringement is disrespectful to the entire industry. (I work closely with our trademark attorney and feel I am qualified to comment.)

1a) I'm of the belief that genedo knew what he was doing and exploited it. There is no reason to even have the RKO name on the website at all. Destination Heartland was enough.

2) I have no problem with anyone advertising their business on this site.

3) I was offering constructive criticism...and was defended in doing so by one of your very active members. Quite frankly, I think what genedo is doing is great. But, I think his website is confusing. Forgive me for trying to help.

4) Agreed. I've tried to be as respectful as possible. You don't want to know what was going through my head as I typed some of these things.

5) Agreed. But, don't wait or you'll get left behind.


Thanks

-VPF
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Re: Pricing Equipment 16 May 2011 15:17 #36063

  • CGM
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Mike:
Please allow me to chime in.
1. I thought everyone involved in this discussion remained, while frank, quite polite.
2. VPF is correct, intellectual property rights are the core of our business and through NATO and the MPAA we spend a lot of time fighting these issues. We all need to respect every else’s intellectual property rights. It isn’t an accident that an iconic trademark in film production, distribution and exhibition was used by an unrelated company.
3. Mike is quite right: move forward with digital and beware. Do lots of genuine research and be very, very careful.
4. In regard to this website, it is very useful and often fun. However, most of us don’t know where much of the advice is coming from. With that in mind, be wary of all of it and of many of us. Do your homework. Talk with real people who have made the conversion. There are plenty of folks to talk to.

CGM
Last Edit: 16 May 2011 15:24 by CGM.
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Re: Pricing Equipment 16 May 2011 22:16 #36071

  • Mike
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Stealing a trademark" is what I'd calling an accusation of theft and I dare say that VPF has no idea what he/she is talking about when it comes to what we did or did not do. Call me old fashioned but I consider being accused of theft by a person I don't know, or know, to be insulting and obnoxious and the mark of a jerk. I wrote VPF a while ago, before seeing this, and said in 12 years I have yet to ban anyone. So allow me to make it public: last chance for good manners. One more time and farewell.
Michael Hurley
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farewell VPF 16 May 2011 22:31 #36072

  • Mike
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On second thought: manners matter here. I first warned VPF when he called theatres that are open less than 7 days "hobby's" for being less than sensitive. I followed him as he has picked more than one fight. And I warned him again and said "two strikes" after having viewed what I, the editor and board monitor, considered to be insulting comments. And then he accuses me of "stealing a trademark." And I warned him again. But then I thought... hey wait a minute.... that makes three strikes. In my experience any time I have to think about firing someone, they should have been fired. So on second thought I banned VPF. My first ever in 12 years. That says a lot about all of the people who have posted here over the years. As I have said all along: there are plenty of people here from large theatres and small towns and chains and single theatre owners, managers, Jewish and Catholic, gay and straight, black, white, Hispanic, men, women, right and left, Dems and Repubs: it is way too easy to tick people off if you are so inclined. So far; we've been more inclined to be helpful rather than obnoxious. Many of us, myself included, have gotten a bit edgy.... and pulled back from the brink. That's the mark of a business person. Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't burn bridges. So it wasn't just that I felt a little personally rubbed wrong to be called a thief. It was more about keeping the tone as convivial and supportive. If you are looking for instinctive jabbers with great counter punching to keep you company, just come to my town of Belfast, Maine and I'll fill your car for you.
Michael Hurley
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