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TOPIC: NATO digi cinema report

Re: NATO digi cinema report 06 May 2005 09:01 #11480

  • jimor
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I don't think that JACKER is wrong. The studios are as greedy nowadays as the conglomerates that own them. There is simply no reason for them to even consider the exhibitors, especially since they don't own them, and that their concern is only profit and avoiding piracy. They are going the satellite route since they believe that it will be the most difficult for pirates to intercept and decode. The quality of image issue is moot since I believe that they secretly anticipate the revision of the Sherman Anti-Trust act to allow them to once again integrate vertically such that they will all own their own strings of multiplexes, and then the independents will be forced out, much to their delight. After all, anyone watching the scene of this country the past decades will have noticed that Big Business now owns the country's politicians more than they ever had, and the old saying comes true: 'He who pays the piper calls the tunes.' Big Business has paid a lot of money for the ever greedy politicians and now the expect their pay back -- and they will get it. If you don't want to go work for one of their future chains, guys, you had best have another line of work lined up! As Jacker says: "The Writing is on the Wall." (this phrase comes from the Bible, in Daniel, chapter 5, verse 5 and following.)
Jim R. (new E-mail: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ) member: www.HistoricTheatres.org
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Re: NATO digi cinema report 06 May 2005 11:30 #11481

  • rodeojack
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All that may be true, Jimor. But as long as there's no agreement on how to deal with a very expensive technology, with no demand from the major funding source (the ticket buyers), this debate will go on. It very well may be that we'll see digital... eventually... and it doesn't bother me that the manufacturers are positioning themselves to be onboard when that time comes. However, (my opinion), it's too bad that so many of us get all frothed up over something that has a lot of kinks yet to be worked out before any of us will see them in our booths.

As I've said before, if this thing is so close to being ready, why is there still only one DC installation in my whole state... and an old one at that? That says a lot to me, because there are a lot of exhibs over yonder with much more money than I'll be seeing anytime soon... and they're still buying 35mm.
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Re: NATO digi cinema report 06 May 2005 11:37 #11482

  • leeler
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Thanks for the kind words, jacker. I have purposefully stayed silent on this subject until now because A). I know very little about it and B). because it scares the hell outta me. I really do love this business and I think the only real thing to screw it up for me at this point is DC. I plan to get way smarter about it, but, ultimately, what would some knowledge do for me? All of the decision-making, from what I have gathered here and elsewhere, is in somebody else's hands. If, as jimor suggests, they plan on choking us little guys out, what can I as one of the littlest guys out there, do about it? If, on the other hand, they plan on letting us in to earn a pittance for them as happens now, do I really expect them to provide, either directly or not, the equipment to make that happen? Of course not, I'm not that naive. Will I, then, have to shell out some more big bucks to get the equipment myself? Yeah, I guess I will have to, or quit this business that I love.....

The point I'm trying to make is, "what're you gonna do about it"?

"What a crazy business"
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Re: NATO digi cinema report 06 May 2005 14:18 #11483

  • outaframe
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LEE, it's nice to know that I'm not the only one who's scared of where DC is leading... And you're correct that there is little we can do about it, other than recognize the threat it poses and try to get our voices heard as to how it's eventually implemented... I also chuckle about the idea the studios will be giving me the equipment to show their product... They have never given me anything in the past, other than a hard time, and it seems unlikely that no matter how cost effective DC will be for them, they will rush to share the savings with anyone else... Should this miracle ever come to pass, you can be sure there would be more strings (steel cables) attached than a grand piano has...

RODEOJACK makes the point that there is no groundswell of demand for DC from the ticket buying public, but the fact is they don't really understand (or care) what they're watching now: many think it's just a giant TV of some kind, and with a little hype about the "superiority" of DIGITAL anything they will buy the idea because it's "new and improved."... Look at how they've bought the supposed "wonders" of "new" stadium seating...

When Xenon came along to replace carbon arc, the projectionist's unions fought it tooth and nail on the basis it would put them out of a job... The "soft soap" answer was that it would "free the projectionist to do his other duties and improve the presentation."... We all know that the "projecionist" now is USUALLY the same pimple faced kid who pops the popcorn, sweeps up, and cleans the toilets, and that the only time he pays any attention to the screen is when a customer comes out and tells him the movie is upside down or quit playing 5 minutes ago!...

It's in OUR best interest to recognize and acknowledge what's coming, and try to influence how it's implemented, while there is still a chance for US to have any say...





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Re: NATO digi cinema report 06 May 2005 17:38 #11484

  • leeler
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so, is this the beginnings of some organization for us, small-time independent theater owners to band together and have a voice in the DC debate? If so, I have some reservations that it will be fruitful, but, what the hell, count me in. It's got to be better then sitting on the sidelines waiting for the fateful day when an exhibitor decides not to put anything on film anymore.....

[This message has been edited by leeler (edited May 06, 2005).]
"What a crazy business"
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Re: NATO digi cinema report 06 May 2005 20:58 #11485

  • jacker5
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I want to make things clear I want film to be hear forever. When I go into a booth I always get that feeling from the glimmer of the bulb to the clicking of the gears and the spinning of the platter.
What will happen to those days of Build up and breakdown, well love to hate. I wont be the same if and when digital takes over.
I liv in the city and all my friends are projectionist in multiplexes but my love is in small town theaters. I make it a habit whenever I go on vacation to find the local Indy cinema and stay away from the Multiplexes.
Now don't get me wrong there are some bad small town cinemas that you say to yourself, "What the hell am I here for."
But when you see the owners smile and greet you and say goodnight how did you like the movie it is all worth it.
I am in search of the perfect small town and hoping I find that small town cinema that I can own and take the chance your all taking.
I think there is a good 5-10 years left. I still don't know what will happen to small town cinemas, your not going to have a multiplex put 15 screens up in a town of 3,000.
All the indys have to voice there opinions and speak out loud the indys need a loud voice and representation.
There are so many things that could happen with this lets hope that all the big film preservationists stand up and are heard soon.
Art films and art houses are doing so well I know for a fact those people are not really happy about this takeover.
I remember a few years ago I was watching a digital performance and the signal skipped a few times someone screamed out what the hell are we watching a video.
Lets hope the system is plagued with those problems and quickly and puts a big hurt in the big chains, were it hurts there pockets!!!!!!
Then the true Exhibitors will stand and shine when the smoke clears running that film in a theater were it was mean to be.
Movies were made for the theaters and is a part of our history, videos and no matter how good a system you have at home you can never replicate the feel of the cinema that you get in the cinema!
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Re: NATO digi cinema report 06 May 2005 21:05 #11486

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I want to make things clear I want film to be hear forever. When I go into a booth I always get that feeling from the glimmer of the bulb to the clicking of the gears and the spinning of the platter.
What will happen to those days of Build up and breakdown, well love to hate. I wont be the same if and when digital takes over.
I liv in the city and all my friends are projectionist in multiplexes but my love is in small town theaters. I make it a habit whenever I go on vacation to find the local Indy cinema and stay away from the Multiplexes.
Now don't get me wrong there are some bad small town cinemas that you say to yourself, "What the hell am I here for."
But when you see the owners smile and greet you and say goodnight how did you like the movie it is all worth it.
I am in search of the perfect small town and hoping I find that small town cinema that I can own and take the chance your all taking.
I think there is a good 5-10 years left. I still don't know what will happen to small town cinemas, your not going to have a multiplex put 15 screens up in a town of 3,000.
All the indys have to voice there opinions and speak out loud the indys need a loud voice and representation.
There are so many things that could happen with this lets hope that all the big film preservationists stand up and are heard soon.
Art films and art houses are doing so well I know for a fact those people are not really happy about this takeover.
I remember a few years ago I was watching a digital performance and the signal skipped a few times someone screamed out what the hell are we watching a video.
Lets hope the system is plagued with those problems and quickly and puts a big hurt in the big chains, were it hurts there pockets!!!!!!
Then the true Exhibitors will stand and shine when the smoke clears running that film in a theater were it was mean to be.
Movies were made for the theaters and is a part of our history, videos and no matter how good a system you have at home you can never replicate the feel of the cinema that you get in the cinema!
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Re: NATO digi cinema report 06 May 2005 21:49 #11487

  • outaframe
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JACKER, there's a lot of truth in what you're saying, but unfortunately it won't make any difference when the switchover to DC happens: there will be no current film prints to play... Yes, they will probably strike a few film prints early on, but even that is likely to be very temporary, and those will likely be so expensive to rent that it won't be worthwhile for the small independent... Hell, like a few others around here, I'm an old carbon arc/2k reel projectionist and miss the time when projection was art as well as a science, but those days are gone... Nothing equals the quality of a carbon arc light source, but that requires a projectionist to keep it trimmed and make the changeovers, and there's a cheaper way to do it now because of the xenon lamp...

LEE, that's not as off the wall as it looks at first glance... INDIVIDUALLY we don't have a ghost of a chance: COLLECTIVELY we MIGHT have a shot at being heard!...
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Re: NATO digi cinema report 07 May 2005 08:55 #11488

  • leeler
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Well, I guess we've come full circle on this thread. Back to Mike's original question. What about all of these unanswered questions about who pays and if it breaks and so on? It seems to me that the studios have much more to gain from this roll-out then the exhibitors do, at least on the surface. If this new equipment is easier to maintain then there would be some savings down the line for the exhibitors, and surely, the shipping charges would be minimal compared to what they are now, but, for the most part, it is the savings for the exhibitors. Should they, then subsidize the cost for the exhibitors, since they will be reaping the rewards, and if so, do you think that is realistic?
"What a crazy business"
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Re: NATO digi cinema report 07 May 2005 10:15 #11489

  • sevstar
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If DC does end up being delivered by satellite. This brings up a few more issues. I have seen one of the DC satellite installations. It required a 12 foot size dish, mounted on the ground with a 8 foot high security fence around it. Much larger than these 18 inch consumer set up's. Plus there will be weather issues to deal with these dish's, as well as where to put them. Then who ends up paying the bandwith to transmit the data? Distributors, Exhibitors or both? I have yet to find free bandwith for cable, internet or satellite delivery at the consumer level. In the end monthly costs for delivery for exhibitors may not be reduced much at all, if any...
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Re: NATO digi cinema report 07 May 2005 10:21 #11490

  • leeler
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One other issue I've wondered about is trailers. It seems like somebody else is going to determine the trailers I end up with as well. I really don't want to advertise for a pic I'm not going to get....
"What a crazy business"
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Re: NATO digi cinema report 07 May 2005 13:48 #11491

  • RonOne50
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Actually you will pick trailers from a play list as well as picking the movie from a play list. According to what I have found out you will receive a new code to input for each new week start date that is vailid from from Midnight Firday morning till midnight thursday night (friday and thursday being valid by the play week or whatever the valid start date of the week is).
Quentin: Of course a woman is going to kill me. I wouldn't have it any other way!
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Re: NATO digi cinema report 07 May 2005 13:53 #11492

  • outaframe
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AHA, here the reasons WHY we should have a say about all this start showing up!... Yes, the dish you described is just about what I anticipated... I installed a few of the 8' dishes when they first came on the market, and later several of the mini-dishes for friends, and my biggest complaint with BOTH is the fact that "reception" is similar to TV: that is, it just isn't CONSISTANT... Rain, snow, and sun "spots" ALL effect the reception just about the same as broadcast TV reception... There are times when you just don't receive the signal!... What do you do when the movie can't be downloaded, and it seems unlikely the public is going to pay for anything less than a perfect recording... All in all, satellite amounts to little more than common old everyday broadcast TV at different frequencies... MORE GOOD REASONS to support a hard copy recording instead of satellite!...

Yes, LEE, I have thought of the same things regarding trailers... Like you, I don't play trailers for pictures I won't be playing... IF the studios are pulling the strings, you can be sure they will maximize exposure for all their output and try to control the download method as an advertizing medium... Still MORE reason WE need a say & some control...
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Re: NATO digi cinema report 07 May 2005 13:56 #11493

  • mixerjv
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RonOne50 is right, the final say on trailers and other pre-show items will be up to the exhibitor.

I kind of doubt that Satellite will end up being the principal transmission method of movies, but anything is possible. There are theatre sites that just won't be able to put a dish up, no room on the roof, no room on the ground, in a city without a clear shot to sats, ect. I think the costs are too much as well. I thought Boeing didn't see much of a future in it and sold the DC unit off...
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Re: NATO digi cinema report 07 May 2005 22:09 #11494

  • jacker5
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Is it just me, or is it seeming like this whole Digital thing is more of a headache than anything.
I know all new things are hard to grasp and at times scary but it seems that someone came up with this and said wow great idea and now that so much money has been poured into it and all these promises they don't want to back out.
Lets hope this is going to be a novelty liek Imax and keep film were it belongs in the theatre and Digital at home.
Why can't they see beyond the dollars and face reality tihe big wigs.
They have already taken over the larger markets, they have taken quality union projectionist away now they want to take away the true showmans of the business.
I walked out tonight of a showing at a multiplex and thought wow if I was at a indy theatre it would be so different.
The presnetaion was late coming on then it was a flat print with a scope lens, then that was corrected the picture was off the screen to the far left and blury.
I know if it was Ye old Mom and pop lil theatre, things would of went off without a problem.
If there was a problem a kind old gentlemen would of apoligized numerous times and took care of the problem before it was a problem.
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