Banner
Home Forums Movie Theaters The Lobby another reason for digital
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: another reason for digital

Re: another reason for digital 21 Sep 2011 13:15 #37014

  • rufusjack
  • rufusjack's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1488
  • Thank you received: 33
  • Karma: -7
I believe there is nothing wrong with CGM's post. Seems to be right on. I do not get the sense that he feels any better than the rest of us anymore than anyone else.

The biggest supporter of "film is going to be here for a while" is Bob who of course can say what he wants but has been out of the business since 2006 I believe. Who on this board thinks that you can assume film will be here for a while and hence open a new theater or buy a theater and do not need to have a plan for digital conversion in place right now?

Plus, as I have pointed out with little evidence to contradict; studios do not program our theaters on even an occasional basis. Please if anyone has proof to that claim, back it up. I do not feel at all that the studios have told me what to play.

People who invest their time and money in a theater could lose it all pretty easily with bad opinions. Business is tough and not for the thin skinned or sensitive soul.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: another reason for digital 22 Sep 2011 08:48 #37022

  • revrobor
  • revrobor's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1135
  • Thank you received: 23
  • Karma: -7
What I'm saying Jack is don't panic not don't plan. Eventually most, if not all, domestic theatres will be digital in one form or another but houses in small and rural markets cannot be led by what is done in metro areas which is what Hollywood targets. To advise those who own or want to buy theatres in smaller markets they must follow the corporate big-boys immediately is just as wrong as advising them not to convert. Unless all the studios around the world decide to have a giant bonfire I believe film will be around longer than you and I will be alive. BTW I left CineMark in '08 and have kept abreast of what's happening in the business through publications and on-line forums. I base my opinions on what I have learned being in and around this business since 1946.
Bob Allen
The Old Showman
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: another reason for digital 22 Sep 2011 14:23 #37023

  • rufusjack
  • rufusjack's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1488
  • Thank you received: 33
  • Karma: -7
revrobor wrote:
To advise those who own or want to buy theatres in smaller markets they must follow the corporate big-boys immediately is just as wrong as advising them not to convert.

Unbelievable horrible advise Bob. If someone is looking to buy a theater today (which I am assuming is a long-term investment because who would buy a theater to flip it???) they must have a plan to convert to digital. When does not matter because is a long-term investment. My opinion based on facts that are available to us is that you should plan on doing it within one year.

Now as I have said Bob, IF YOU OWN a theater now; you can wait to the last minute unless you can qualify for a 1st run VPF.

No studio is going to set a date that is 9-12 mos out because they do not need to. I think you will see no notice or at most a 3 month notice that some movies will only be digital.

Bob, please explain to me why a studio will release a movie on film when 95% of the film's gross comes from digital locations? We are at 70%+ plus right now and heading toward 95% at a pretty fast pace.

Who else agrees 100% with the following statement: Buyers looking today to purchase a theater MUST include costs to convert to digital in their purchase decision.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: another reason for digital 22 Sep 2011 16:24 #37028

  • revrobor
  • revrobor's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1135
  • Thank you received: 23
  • Karma: -7
Believe it or not Jack I agree with you. I'm just saying it doesn't have to be done tomorrow.
Bob Allen
The Old Showman
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: another reason for digital 23 Sep 2011 19:53 #37034

  • Elin TW
  • Elin TW's Avatar
rufusjack wrote:

Who else agrees 100% with the following statement: Buyers looking today to purchase a theater MUST include costs to convert to digital in their purchase decision.

Agreed! Better yet, if the theatre isn't digital, you should deduct the cost of digital from the purchase price. It's that important.

Like CGM, I've stayed away from these forums because of people like revrobar who give the same advice over and over and continue to rehash the same things over and over without any basis in the real world.

Bob -- you've been out of the industry since 2008. That's like being out of it since 1998. It's changed. It's moving faster toward digital than we ever expected. Film will be gone by 2015. You'll have to purchase your 35mm prints and pay film rental on top of that by 2013. For you to continue to tell people otherwise is a disservice. If you are reading the "trade publications" you should have a clear picture of what is going on. It's quite obvious.

In addition, about the distributors are running the show...well...yes...that's true. While we can offer local film fests and the like (and I do), if you want to make money in the industry, you need to play what people want to see. What people want to see are the big blockbusters put out by the major studios. Why do they want to see them, you ask? Perhaps it's because of the marketing dollars behind them. And, do you know how I know they want to see them? It's by fielding the numerous phone calls from customers when we don't have room to pickup all the new releases. Very rarely do I get calls for releases that aren't "mainstream". So, perhaps you are out of the industry because the industry has passed you by.

Please stop giving crap advice. As CGM said, people on here deserve to get good advice. Rufusjack, for example, asks great questions and seems very engaged. He's talked about digital on here and his competition and VPFs, etc. He needs legit advice. That advice should not be film will be here forever or film will be here for 10 years. It isn't true, regardless of how many times you say it. How many press releases have you gotten telling you film depots are closing? How many trade shows have you been at discussing the need to move to digital now because film is going away faster than we ever thought it would? I'm guessing none since you aren't in the industry. Unless you are in the industry right now and experiencing what is going on, you have no clue. It's becoming more and more obvious with all of your posts.

I don't say this to be a jerk. But, I'm sure Mike will ban me like he banned VPF. This board doesn't want anyone to challenge anyone else. This board simply wants to "let everyone have an opinion". Except, in this case, the opinion is flat wrong and is a disservice to those who seek real information. And, Strategery, CGM doesn't owe anyone an apology. He's spot on.

Like CGM, I'm virtually done with this forum. You all say the same things over and over and no one calls anyone out for the nonsense. I've done that now and I've said my peace. You can all continue to live under rocks as it obviously doesn't matter how many people say things, most of you will continue to say the same things.

[And, yes, I know I said I served cans, etc., so don't go pulling that crap out. It was BS and was making fun of others on here who were "amazed" that fountain soda had a bigger margin than cans. Most of what I said about my "theatre" on here was BS designed to get a fun conversation started or to designed to see what kind of stupid responses I could generate. It worked.]

Peace,
Elin
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: another reason for digital 23 Sep 2011 20:13 #37035

  • AllenD
  • AllenD's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 77
  • Thank you received: 4
  • Karma: -1
Elin:
To clarify a point you made, distributors may make theaters "buy" a print if they want 35 mm. "Buy" means paying for the print not owning the print. Some theatre newbies on the forum may think they can buy and own Moneyball.
And The Old Showman has been out of the business since 2006, not 2008. That's 35 years in dog years, which is about how long the last five years in the theatre business have felt like.
As recently as three years ago I would sit at a ShoWest luncheon sponsored by a digital equipment provider and think "who cares."
Allen
Last Edit: 23 Sep 2011 23:13 by AllenD.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: another reason for digital 23 Sep 2011 21:13 #37036

  • BusyBee
  • BusyBee's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Gold Boarder
  • Posts: 193
  • Thank you received: 10
  • Karma: 7
I'll have to agree that some of the advice on the forum is flawed, but I think any person who is thinking of getting into the business is getting the real idea if they are paying attention at all. So much has happened since 2006, the industry is just not the same as it was then.

I've been working in theaters for almost 15 years, and bought my theater in 2008. When we financed, we did not plan for digital conversion. We sought lots of advice from people in the industry, and EVERYONE told us that we wouldn't NEED to convert for another 5-10 years. They advised us that film would have a strong presence for at least 10 more years. This seemed to be good advice given what I was observing on my own while working at the theater.

That changed, and it changed fast. I'll say that in February of 2011 we were not making any plans to convert. It was after Cinemacon when things took a big leap forward, in my observation. We began to plan our conversion in about May. We are converting before Thanksgiving.

Something that I think has not been mentioned or discussed on this forum is that you don't have to play 85% of your movies on the break to receive VPF's. You can still receive VPF's for films played through their fifth play week (or sixth?), the VPFs just won't be as much. And you don't have to qualify for Cinedigm financing, you can finance through your own bank and still receive VPF's. That is what we are doing. We only play about 65-70% of our films on the break.

I'm not angry at the people on this forum for not being up to date on the realities of digital conversion, it has moved quickly and I think that is really hard to believe for people who were recently in the biz but aren't in it now. I think it makes for a good discussion for people who might be misinformed.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: another reason for digital 24 Sep 2011 02:49 #37038

  • Elin TW
  • Elin TW's Avatar
Well said BusyBee. Maybe Bob will listen to you. I just hope that no one listens to him. Doing so will put you at a disadvantage. And, to Mike's point earlier, certainly Bob is entitled to his opinion BUT I think the board, and Mike specifically, have an obligation to point out that he is flat wrong.

And, yes, in 2008 my company was still putting in 35mm projectors in new theatres. It's changed and changes fast with booking and digital.

Elin
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: another reason for digital 24 Sep 2011 16:42 #37041

  • RoxyVaudeville
  • RoxyVaudeville's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 895
  • Thank you received: 17
  • Karma: 3
"Something that I think has not been mentioned or discussed on this forum is that you don't have to play 85% of your movies on the break to receive VPF's. You can still receive VPF's for films played through their fifth play week (or sixth?), the VPFs just won't be as much. And you don't have to qualify for Cinedigm financing, you can finance through your own bank and still receive VPF's. That is what we are doing. We only play about 65-70% of our films on the break.”

I continue to hear comments being made that VPF’s are available to everyone in some form or another. NATO keeps saying that everyone is covered. However, I have not found that to be true. What am I missing?

There are many 2nd run and discount theatres that play beyond 6 weeks out. Mine is one of them, and so are some of my booking accounts and other theatres in my area as well. From reading the posts here you would think that there are no, or at least very few, theatres that play that late. What are they to do?

I just reviewed my summer bookings, The earliest opening I had was Mr. Poppers Penguins which was on the 6th week, and that was because it didn’t perform well first run, so it came off quickly. I ended up doing over 7 grand for the first week. Most of my bookings fell between 6 to 10 weeks, averaging 8 weeks. My average weekly BO gross was about 5500, often on split screen. Last night I opened Zookeeper which is now in its 12th week of release. It did about a grand for the opening day, which means it will do between 3500 and 4000 for the week. Not bad for this time of the year. That gross prediction is due to the fact that it’s this time of the year when weekday business is slow. If I opened with that amount during the summer, it would produce a full week gross of about 7 grand. My ticket price: All seats $3,00 at all times. Why do I mention these grosses? Well… for two reasons: First, to show that movies can still do well long after their original release if they have the right combination of circumstances such as location, price, parking, population, theatre aesthetics and management policies (showmanship). Secondly, because of the fact that there are many first run theatres that don’t gross as well as I do even though they open on the national release date which makes them eligible for VPF’s, while I am not. I have, and continue to argue that it shouldn’t be based on play date, but rather on the amount of film rent you pay. I certainly pay more film rental at an average of 38% then many small first runs pay at 55%.

However, that having been said, I don’t want the VPF’s. I will pay for it myself, and won’t have to put up with all the strings attached. You know what I mean… all the things that you have to agree not to tell anyone about. I’ve done my shopping, so I’ve seen those agreements. They are not for me. I’ll buy it, pay for it, and do what I want with it.

My problem is not what it does to me, it’s what it’s going to do to the little guys. Many, actually most, are not as lucky as me. I really get irritated by the fact that it’s going to rob many people of their business’, and many communities of their only theatres.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: another reason for digital 24 Sep 2011 17:20 #37043

  • Mike
  • Mike's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 5066
  • Thank you received: 45
  • Karma: 15
"I really get irritated by the fact that it’s going to rob many people of their business’, and many communities of their only theatres." As the VPF clock ticks down and smaller towns that never see a 1000.00 gross in one day and the looming closure of many a small town theatre I will bet you .25 you'll see state and federal actions that will extend and soften the crunch day. If there has been one great disappointment in all this it has been NATO. They truly should be the National Association of Large Theatre Owners. NALTO. NALTO and the distribs left the smaller theatres out to dry.
Michael Hurley
Impresario
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: another reason for digital 24 Sep 2011 17:38 #37044

  • rufusjack
  • rufusjack's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1488
  • Thank you received: 33
  • Karma: -7
So where do we as a society draw the line?

I know many video store owners that lost video stores. Should the government have stepped in on their behalf?

Why do we/you think that any business has the right to be open forever and requires government help/protection? What has happened that is illegal in this conversion?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: another reason for digital 24 Sep 2011 19:56 #37045

  • revrobor
  • revrobor's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1135
  • Thank you received: 23
  • Karma: -7
Elin TW wrote:
rufusjack wrote:


Bob -- you've been out of the industry since 2008. That's like being out of it since 1998. It's changed. It's moving faster toward digital than we ever expected. Film will be gone by 2015. You'll have to purchase your 35mm prints and pay film rental on top of that by 2013. For you to continue to tell people otherwise is a disservice. If you are reading the "trade publications" you should have a clear picture of what is going on. It's quite obvious.

Elin

I believe if you look around you will see the the vast majority of digital conversions are in large metro and perhaps some medium markets. The small and rural markets get little or no attention from either Hollywood or the equipment manufacturers. Film may or may not be gone by 2015. But IMO the small and rural market exhibitors do not need to make the a panic switch immediately. They have at least a couple of years to plan and save for it. And yes, I believe the conversion should be made by everyone EVENTUALLY. I do have a clear picture of what is going on in spite of what some on this forum may think. I just sense a spirit of panic among a number of them.
Bob Allen
The Old Showman
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: another reason for digital 24 Sep 2011 20:35 #37046

  • tratcliff
  • tratcliff's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Gold Boarder
  • Posts: 172
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
I'm in a similar situation as Roxy, though not as fortunate in the high gross department.
I play films on average 6-7 weeks old.

I too looked at the VPF programs, and for me, I not only don't see where I would qualify for any of them, but there are so many Big Brother strings and costs attached, esp the Cinedigm one. There are the fees for playing alternate content, for screen advertising, the required NOC agreement. Then there is the constant monitoring of the servers. You have to have a dedicated network for them to be connected to your server 24/7. Etc.....

In this situation I truly WOULD feel like I'm giving up control of my own business.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: another reason for digital 24 Sep 2011 20:56 #37047

  • rufusjack
  • rufusjack's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1488
  • Thank you received: 33
  • Karma: -7
alright Bob:

all digital locations

Marysville, Ks - population 3271, 3 screens
Elkader, IA - 1338, 1 screens
Mexcio, MO - 10,852, 3
Fulton, MO - 12,128, 8
Great Bend, KS - 15,652, 3
El Dorado, KS - 12,643, 6
Concordia,KS - 5709, 4
Chanute, KS - 8738, 4
Bolivar, MO - 11169, 5
McPherson, KS - 13,223, 4

All I have time for now, but I will keep looking.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: another reason for digital 24 Sep 2011 22:00 #37048

  • JPRM
  • JPRM's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Expert Boarder
  • Posts: 122
  • Thank you received: 5
  • Karma: 4
I certainly think it's wise to prepare for digital, though I have a question. I've asked this before and never really gotten an answer.

What do y'all anticipate will happen with the cost of converting to digital once the chains are completely converted?

Will it just stay where it is and force little guys out of business? Or will the folks who manufacture and sell digital gear also have a bit of adapting to do? Let's say we're just talking about theaters in North America.

I know what I think, but...what do YOU think?
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Time to create page: 0.277 seconds
attraction attraction
attraction
attraction
attraction
attraction