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Numbers to high... 29 Oct 2003 18:46 #6592

  • Violet
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Im Looking at reopening a twin screan (340 seats about)and just not sure if my numbers are adding up.

Rent: $3,000.00
PG&E $2,500.00
Utilities: $200.00
Insurance: $1,000.00
Alarm: $150.00
Stock: $1,500.00
Staff: $3,000.00
Advertising: $500.00

Total =$11,850.00

Not to mention the $15,000 of repairs & upgrades...Tho the owners are willing to bring the building up to code & replace the signs (about $50,000 in all)
Does this look close? Am I missing anything?
Am I crazy?...Starting to feel crazy.
And do you think a twin in a small town (16,000) can suport this? We do have a huge theater 20 min. from us.

~Violet

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Re: Numbers to high... 29 Oct 2003 21:25 #6593

  • outaframe
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VIOLET <> You don't say whether these figures are for a month, or a different time span, but assuming they are for a month, I would guess if anything, they are too LOW in some instances... I don't know if 16,000 population will provide enough income to show a profit, especially with the competition you mention, and the expenses which seem likely for this location...
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Re: Numbers to high... 29 Oct 2003 22:56 #6594

  • RoxyVaudeville
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Violet

You seem to be missing quite a few items.

Give us the figures on a monthly basis for all of the following and I'm sure we can compare and advise.

Rent
Electric
Heat (if not electric) oil, gas etc.
water/sewer
telephone
payroll
taxes
advertising: newspapers, radio, TV etc.
adv. material: posters, ad sheets, trailers
film delivery
trash hauling
telephone
insurance
repairs & maintainence
office expenses
licenses, fees & dues
loan payments
misc. supplies

This business is conducted on a weekly basis as movies run on a week by week schedule. You need a weekly house expense to give to the film distrbutors for contractual purposes. And you need to know your weekly costs in order to know if any given film has made a profit or not.

Your advertising seems very low unless you only have a weekly paper to advertise in. Utilities seem extremely low as well. PG&E I'm assuming is electric which seems high, but maybe it includes heat.



[This message has been edited by RoxyVaudeville (edited October 30, 2003).]
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Re: Numbers to high... 30 Oct 2003 09:49 #6595

  • Violet
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TY for your fast reply & yes my figures were for monthly.We do have a huge movie complex 20 min. away but no one in our area does discount tickets. I was also looking into showing spanish subtitles on one screan since our spanish population is about 50% in town.(Most dont speak any english.)
After talking to the Spanish raido station & looking around there seems to not be anything catering to this large group of people. Also we have no other form of intertainment in town. Can anyone give me a ball park for the figures Im missing?

Rent: $3,000
Electric/Heat:$2,500 (was told it runs between $2,000 & $3,000 monthly)
water/sewer/trash:$200
telephone:$100
payroll:$3,000
taxes:??
advertising/newspapers:$500
adv. material: posters,trailers:$500
film delivery:??
insurance:$1,000
repairs & maintainence:??
office expenses:??
licenses, fees & dues:??
loan payments: guessing...about $1,000
misc. supplies:$1,500
Alarm:$150

The owner plans to gut the theater & put in two store fronts if I dont reopen. I would just hate to see that done. But I dont want to put my family at risk either.

~Violet
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Re: Numbers to high... 30 Oct 2003 10:31 #6596

  • BurneyFalls
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This site must be in So. Calif being serviced by PG&E and with that high of a Spanish population. The PG&E seems pretty high. My 4400 sq.ft. single screen's highest PG&E bills are in the $800 range, mid summer and winter in the north state's mountains. (It was 19 degrees this morning--96 degrees the day before yesterday!) Mild months are much lower. Depends on how many shows per day and what temp you set your thermostat when the business is closed.

Your staff cost also seems high. The only way I have found to run my theatre and TRY to make any money is to work there myself 99% of the time. With two screens you should be able to cut that $3,000 cost.

Film delivery from Technicolor is about $19 now one way. ETS delivery is something else again and for me more than twice that. If you are near the ETS depot you can pick those movies up yourself.

Taxes depend on what you make and how much your employees make. Don't forget WORKERS' COMPENSATION. That is also going to cost you a bundle. Figure $1,000 a year at least--could be much, much more. Just got my $850 estimate and I only have five very part time employees and never had any type of injury.

[This message has been edited by BurneyFalls (edited October 30, 2003).]
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Re: Numbers to high... 30 Oct 2003 12:37 #6597

  • BECKWITH1
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Don't forget film rental at 50 - 55% of admissions and concession inventory at 30% or so of what you sell.

There is probably a reason why no one does discount tickets. Look in to that to find out why. That complex is probably going to affect what you can book as you may not be able to get film until they are done with it. If so you are correct to be looking at discount. Remember that the window between when they drop a film and when it becomes available on video is unpleasantly close. This is what is killing the subrun/discount business. Spanish language films may have promise, but you need a steady source. Are you using a booker who can find them for you? You will need to figure in the bookers fees also.
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Re: Numbers to high... 30 Oct 2003 13:00 #6598

  • Violet
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Well my booker is $100.00 a week and I was told that included posters & trailers. I was also told that film rental would be around
40%. As for the PG&E I have talked to a the owner of another twin about an hour away & the other stores in my complex & these are the numbers they gave me...There are 3 or 4 AC units (old ones) but summer temps are around 100% at any given time here.
As for the staff I am figuring 2 part time people & I have a film tec. that is willing to train us & run the film booth for $10.00 an hour. I was aming high rather then be shocked with a large bill in the end.
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Re: Numbers to high... 30 Oct 2003 19:54 #6599

  • BECKWITH1
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If you end up running discount, you are correct that that the film rentals will be lower but I would hesitate to use 40% in the business plan as that assumes that you will never run Disney (50% on discount) and nearly all of your films will come in at 35% except for the occasional blockbuster which nearly always comes in at 40 - 50%. If you plan on running Disney products (highly recommended since families are the best source for late run theaters) you should plan for 43 - 48%.
I find it interesting that your booker is quoting posters and trailers in his fees as posters and trailers are generally sent by distributors directly to theaters rather than through bookers. Discount theaters have the most difficulty getting anything free as distributors don't send nearly as much stuff without your asking for it. You usually have to pick up the telephone to call Technicolor or order them on the web at the various studio websites. Most will charge you at least a shipping fee. Some will also charge you $5 for the poster. Trailers are like diamonds in the discount business. If you get one from a distributor count yourself lucky. Most of the time we got ours from the previous theater that included some in the film cans. We also begged some from the local first run theater. Can your booker supply anything you want in advance of your booking date? This is important as you will want to have posters and trailers up as early as possible. BTW - we paid $40 per week for a single screen on subrun when we started out.
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Re: Numbers to high... 30 Oct 2003 23:29 #6600

  • outaframe
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All of the answers you have received point out expenses which you would need to consider... ROXY's list is very complete and detailed... BURNEY's list points out the high cost of Workman's Comp in California (and elsewhere), and some possible ways to save on expenses... I would add that you will be contributing an amount equal to the employee's FICA you withhold, and possibly some State/Local amounts related to this, as well... BECKWITH's comments point out some things that I too, find troubling... A booker who can hold your film cost at 40% is either a wonder, or will be buying VERY late, and/or pictures with lesser track records... And I have never heard of any booker who provides trailers and posters... He may ORDER them for you, but may also have the billing go to you... $100 per week for a twin seems high, BUT if he actually furnishes the trailers and posters, and can hold your film billings to 40% on recent successful pictures, he would be a bargain... I would certainly clarify these points with him before you subscribe to his service...
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Re: Numbers to high... 31 Oct 2003 00:09 #6601

  • Barry Floyd
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I copied this directly the "Cash Flow Plan" section of our business plan. The base items on the list were posted somewhere by LARGE about a year or so ago, but the list now contains some additional things that were applicalbe to us, but maybe not to you.

Cash On Hand
(Beginning of Month)

CASH RECEIPTS
Boxoffice Admissions
State Sales Tax (Boxoffice ONLY)
Boxoffice (after tax) Net Revenue
Concessions & Food Permit Sales
Tennessee State Sales Tax (Concessions ONLY)
Concessions (after tax) Net Revenue
Facilities Rental Income
TOTAL CASH RECEIPTS
Total Cash Available (Before Cash Out)

CASH PAID OUT

Operating Expenses
Concession Merchandise Costs (Food & Paper Products)
Equipment Rental
Staff Payroll
Net Staff Payroll
FICA
Medicare
State Unemployeement
Federal Unemployeement
Total Staff Payroll

Film Expenses
Feature Film Rental
Other Film Rental (Flat Rentals)
Film Buying Expense (Booker)
Film Freight Costs
Total Film Expenses

Marketing & Advertising
Total Marketing & Advertising

Maintenance
Lawn Maintenance
Repairs & Maintenance
Janitorial Service
Concession Stand Repair
Projection & Sound Equipment Repair
Xenon Lamp Replacements
Total Repairs & Maintenance

Supplies
Staff Uniforms
Box Office Supplies
Janitorial Supplies
Projection Supplies
Total Supplies

Utilities
Electricity
Water
Sewer
Natural Gas
Telephone
Total Utilities

Total Operating Expenses
General & Administration Expense
Insurance
Liability Insurance
Workman's Comp. Insurance
Total Insurance

Office Expenses
Total Office Expenses

Payroll Management
Management Salaries & Wages
FICA
Medicare
State Unemployeement
Federal Unemployeement

Total Payroll Management
Professional Fees
Total Professional Fees
Taxes
County Property Tax
City Property Tax
County Personalty Tax
Total Property Taxes

Total General & Administrative Expenses
Interest Expense
Finance Charge
Construction Loan Principal Payment
Construction Loan Interest
Late Fees and Penalties
Total Principal & Interest Expenses

Grand Total Expenses

Adjusted Gross Income
Less Total Monthly Expenses

Cash Position (End of Month)

We operate a single screen drive-in, and the electric bill for 1/2 of August was about $700.00 (Open 7 nights a week). September bill came in at $293 (Open weekends only)

Our Water & Sewer combined has been right at $75.00 a month.



Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Lebanon, Tennessee

Stardust Drive-In Theatre
Watertown, Tennessee
Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Lebanon, Tennessee

Stardust Drive-In Theatre
Watertown, Tennessee
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Re: Numbers to high... 31 Oct 2003 00:36 #6602

  • RoxyVaudeville
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I am a moveover or intermediate (subrun) theatre, and as of this past week my film rental for the year thus far is 39%. Last year it was 38%. All of my subrun booking accounts are coming in between 38 to 40%. I no longer have any discount ($2.00 or less) accounts. They would be higher... about 42-43%. I charge subrun twins only half of that amount. Sorry, I don't book outside Pennsylvania. The reason for this is that Pennsylvania is an "exhibitors rights" state. It is the only state that I know of that has laws that prohibit film distributors from demanding advances and guarantees on film rental. I just don't want to get involved in those hassles with distributors again. I remember what it was like before we passed the Motion Picture Fair Trade Practices Law back in the early 80s, and don't want to go through all of that ever again.
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Re: Numbers to high... 31 Oct 2003 09:31 #6603

  • Violet
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Well thank you all....So much to look into!
First thing this morning I will get my booker on the phone & find out once & for all what he is offering. I will let you all know what he says.
~Violet
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