Banner
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC: Digital Cinema

Digital Cinema 01 Nov 2005 13:39 #11259

in planning for our new 4 screen theater I want to find out hard numbers for installing Digital projection if anyone has them.

Also - Questions:

#1 - Is there a "standard" yet?
#2 - Cost of Equipment
#3 - Are there any programs out there to help with conversion costs?
#4 - Do you really get a $1000 credit for each digital film screened?
#5 - I wrote to Dolby about their system but did not get any response. Does anyone know about thier product?

Thanks

Tom Watkins
Magic Lantern Theater - USA
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Digital Cinema 01 Nov 2005 16:03 #11260

  • outaframe
  • outaframe's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 672
  • Karma: 0
The standard they HOPE to meet is to just be EQUAL to the picture quality of EXISTING 35mm... All the rest is STILL wishful thinking and unanswered in hard fact... The REAL push for this is by the studios who will reap major cost savings... Anything exhibitors gain is just a secondary consideration...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Digital Cinema 01 Nov 2005 17:17 #11261

  • BurneyFalls
  • BurneyFalls's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1341
  • Karma: 0
I'll preface my answer by saying I know very little about digital cinema--just what I have read here and through NATO.
#1 - They are still working on an acceptable standard.
#2 - Read here of $10,000 per screen cost to exhibitors. See-3
#3 - Subsidized by participating studios, but each projector still costs you $10,000 plus other costs to operate.
#4 - What kind of magic you got cookin' in that lantern?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Digital Cinema 01 Nov 2005 22:41 #11262

  • outaframe
  • outaframe's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 672
  • Karma: 0
BURNEY, where did you see that $10K per screen cost (#2)?... The lowest figure I have seen ANYWHERE is $100K...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Digital Cinema 01 Nov 2005 23:20 #11263

  • Ken Layton
  • Ken Layton's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 865
  • Thank you received: 4
  • Karma: -1
Yeh, I think it is $100,000 per screen for those digital video projectors.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Digital Cinema 02 Nov 2005 00:28 #11264

  • BurneyFalls
  • BurneyFalls's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1341
  • Karma: 0
Sevstar's post Going Deep for Digital quoted The New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/26/business/media/26digital.html

Here is an excerpt:

"After months of wrangling between the studios and several vendors, the first deals are being signed that could lead theater owners to buy and install digital projectors.

The structure of the deals follows a pattern. Theater owners pay roughly $10,000 toward the $85,000 cost of converting each auditorium. The balance is recovered, typically over 10 years, from the movie studios, which pay "virtual print fees."

These fees, which start at around $1,000 for each copy of a movie delivered to a theater, are intended to approximate the studios' financial savings on film prints and shipping. They have agreed to steer that money to the suppliers of digital cinema equipment.

Under the first major deal announced so far, Disney said on Sept. 15 that it would pay virtual print fees toward the installation of projectors from Christie Digital Systems USA, under a nonexclusive deal financed by Access a start-up that is hoping to carve out a slice of the expected market for digital distribution to theaters."

Maybe that is where Magic Lantern thought there was a $1,000 credit for each digital print screened. Think he misread the statement.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Digital Cinema 02 Nov 2005 00:35 #11265

  • outaframe
  • outaframe's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 672
  • Karma: 0
OK, it was in an article, then, and I hadn't read it at the time... I STILL doubt than ANY studio is going to help any of us little guys, when push comes to shove... I have serious reservations when they talk about Free Lunch!...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Digital Cinema 04 Nov 2005 11:46 #11266

  • Tom Watkins
  • Tom Watkins's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 62
  • Karma: 0
Changed my user ID to my name to avoid confusion with the Magic Lantern folks in Canada...seems that had an issue with it.

Anyway, my Magic Lantern was the first theater in Maine way back in the late early 80's to install Dolby Stero. With our new rebuild I thought it would be cool to be first again with Digital Projection.

I thought the $1000 savings was a rebate to the theater owner for the savings of a print not having to be struck and shipped.

Anyway, if the cost of 85,000-$100,00 per screen is real who would be making the offer of help on install? I'm game to look into this and work the cost into my build but don't want to put something in that hasn't been standardized (VHS vs. Beta anyone?)

Dolby has a capture and playback system with Christie having the projector. Are there other companies in this game? The 3D option looks way too expensive and the need for a silver screen and the $25,000/year "fee" is a joke.

I would still have a 35mm setup in the booth for this screen and would even consider another Digital Projector in another smaller theater so I can "age" it down.

Is it better to wait and install this later or go for it?
Tom Watkins
Magic Lantern Theater
Bridgton Maine
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Digital Cinema 04 Nov 2005 12:18 #11267

  • outaframe
  • outaframe's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 672
  • Karma: 0
From here, it looks like a good time to wait and see what ACTUALLY unfolds, before jumping into digital...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Digital Cinema 04 Nov 2005 15:47 #11268

  • leeler
  • leeler's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1342
  • Thank you received: 12
  • Karma: 12
I have to agree with outtaframe. I think the ball is in the court of the studios at this point. They have to collaborate and decide the specifics of how much they're willing to pay to get this done (if any). Then they (along with NATO) can decide on how it will manifest itself.
"What a crazy business"
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Digital Cinema 05 Nov 2005 09:53 #11269

  • rodeojack
  • rodeojack's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1255
  • Thank you received: 6
  • Karma: 2
When you do decide to get in, make sure you've checked out the whole picture. From what I've seen of one of these financing plans, there's a requirement that you enter a 10-year "standard" maintenance contract with the projector manufacturer.

I first heard about this when the owner of a service/supply company told me about it... concerned about the future of his business. The inference here is that, rather than the established service companies being able to train-in to keep these thing working, the manufacturer is establishing its own service arm with exclusive rights... which would be an added annual expense.

I'd say Outaframe and Leeler are right on this one. Look at the trades... many companies are popping up out of nowhere, positioning themselves for a piece of the action.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Digital Cinema 07 Nov 2005 12:02 #11270

  • sals
  • sals's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Expert Boarder
  • Posts: 118
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 1
And...very importantly....these digi proj's are UPLOADING every show you run, whether or not you run a show. The film companies will have complete control and knowledge of all we do.

Say, if we're getting too many people for a show and would like to move a print to a larger auditorium? The projector will shut down if you move it. The file will be deleted if you try to move it to another theater as well, from what I've heard.

I don't feel comfortable with the Big Brother approach, and feel the little guys are the ones who will suffer for this, generally having a smaller number of screens.

Where is NATO?? How did this get incorporated into the standard?

The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Digital Cinema 07 Nov 2005 14:38 #11271

  • rodeojack
  • rodeojack's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1255
  • Thank you received: 6
  • Karma: 2
I think that part of the issue is resolved in the DCI, Sals. Part of the deal is supposed to be that the "clearing house" has all the keys needed for your facility. You're supposed to be able to move the shows around within your building.

On the issue of reporting: One of the guys on the FT board says he's never connected his system to the outside (for "security reasons"), and has never had an issue or inquiry.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Digital Cinema 08 Nov 2005 00:54 #11272

  • RoxyVaudeville
  • RoxyVaudeville's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 895
  • Thank you received: 17
  • Karma: 3
I saw the following article posted on the Cinema Treasures website and thought it would make for some interesting reading. It had run in ASHARQ ALAWAT, the leading Arabic International Daily.

While we often express the fact that we find it difficult to believe that the American studios will include the small independents in the change to digital projection, or at least include us in the payment for such, I couldn't help but wonder if what is about to happen in India couldn't be accomplished here as well.

******************************************

["Digital revolution set to sweep India's Bollywood"

29/10/2005

BANGALORE (Reuters) - Digital cinema is about to take off in India, home of the world's most prolific film industry, but not without some twists and turns worthy of a "Bollywood" melodrama.

In the United States, a digital roll-out has stalled while Hollywood studios and theater owners fight over who pays for top-quality computer-based projection systems that cost $80,000 to $100,000 per screen.

But in the Mumbai-based film industry known as Bollywood, entrepreneurs are willing to settle for a bit less quality at one-third the cost. They use cheap digital cinema in remote towns to cash in on blockbusters -- and in the process, beat back video pirates, too.

"Piracy can be completely prevented when the entire industry goes digital," said Senthil Kumar of RealImage Media Technologies, a start-up in Chennai (Madras) that makes digital video players.

But as with mobile phones, India opts for value over top quality, a strategy that makes sense in an industry where only one in 12 movies has made a solid profit since 2001.

Industry officials say low-cost digital cinema, called "E-Cinema" in contrast to the top-quality "D-Cinema," is just what Bollywood needs. Though less than 2 percent of the country's 13,000 cinemas are digital, 2006 should see some big roll-outs in India.

"E-Cinema is what is going to be appropriate for countries like India," Kumar says.

India, led by Bollywood, produces about 1,000 films a year and Kumar calls the industry "pure Las Vegas" because producers often gamble on a single blockbuster to make up for several flops. But transporting celluloid prints to remote towns costs more and gives video pirates enough time to mint cheap copies, cutting into profits.

And that is where start up companies like RealImage come in.

Amit Khanna, chairman of Reliance Entertainment, an arm of India's biggest private group, Reliance, said digital cinema could help the industry make quick profits.

"The idea is saturation release. There is too much content chasing too many eyeballs," Khanna said.

While it takes around 70,000 rupees to make a celluloid print, RealImage rents out digital copies to cinema owners at less than 400 rupees.

Using inexpensive digital copies, a theater can run a movie for four weeks at less than 10 percent of the cost of a print, taking the edge off cinematic flops.

RealImage, which takes an upfront security deposit, but no equipment rentals from cinema owners, is now serving 40 screens in its home state of Tamil Nadu, and there are plans for 100 more across India by December, Kumar said.

Mumbai-based UFO Moviez, a service provider, uses satellites to download movies and last month ordered 500 projectors from U.S.-based Digital Projection International.

UFO now serves 50 cinemas and plans to reach 500 screens by March, a company official said.

Chennai-based Pyramid Saimira Theater Ltd., which uses RealImage players, is also looking to satellites. The company, which has management contracts with cinema owners, is running cheap digital movies in 28 cinemas in Tamil Nadu, and plans to have 100 by the end of November.

UFO said on its Web site that digital systems can track every playback and set an audit trail to check pirates.

Multiplex owner Adlabs Films Ltd. (ADLF.BO) got into digital early with a 100-strong E-Cinema chain, but it did not do well because its single-microchip players offered lower quality. Kumar said the scene has now changed because new E-Cinema players use three microchips made by Texas Instruments Inc. (NYSE:TXN - news) that give Bollywood a better trade-off between cost and quality.

But there are still doubters.

"I don't want to be a mover or shaker in this," Shravan Shroff, managing director of multiplex owner and distributor Shringar Cinemas Ltd. (SHRC.BO), which runs 22 screens.

"I would be a fence-sitter till someone else does it. I can always go and buy the technology later." ]

**************************************


I have seen some of these E-Cinema systems here in the states projected onto screens up to 30 feet wide with results that appear to me to be equal if not better then 35mm. These systems cost under $10,000, and while probably could not be used satisfactory on larger screens, would be quite sufficient for smaller theatres, especially sub-run houses.

It is an unfortunate reality that the public expects the quality of sub-runs to be less then first runs, yet in some areas patronize those theatres well. Not every one cares that the presentation be absolutely perfect, as long as the theatre has done the best that it can with the print that it has received. A few scratches or dirt blotches are tolerated. Those of us that are sub-run, and try our very best to present "film done right" have had to live with the fact that we almost never get a new print. The public that patronizes our theatres are willing to wait to save a substantial amount of money, and in order to do so will accept slightly less.

For us this new cheaper system could very well even be an improvement as all scratches and dirt will be gone, traded off for possibly a slightly visible pixalation if you're sitting down front. However, I didn't see such when I viewed this system. Actually, the $10,000 system that was used in my theatre looked better on my 30 foot screen then the $150,000 system did on the AMC Empire's 60 foot screen on 42nd Street in New York City exhibiting Star Wars.

So anyway, my thought is why not have different priced systems available for exhibitors to choose from, especially for those that may be forced to pay for them themselves. Then let the public decide which they prefer to patronize.

My bet is that most of the public wouldn't know the difference, or at least wouldn't care.






[This message has been edited by RoxyVaudeville (edited November 08, 2005).]
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Digital Cinema 08 Nov 2005 02:15 #11273

  • outaframe
  • outaframe's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 672
  • Karma: 0
Hello ROXY, didn't you and I talk about something along this line a year or so ago?... Is COMMON SENSE finally rearing its ugly head, in the face of the prohibitvely expensive and complicated system the pipedreamers are proposing?... Now, IF they would only provide us with a tangible HARDCOPY of the feature that we could actually see, hold in our hands and repair if necessary, instead of a download on a computer chip (or the like,) which can be lost in a microsecond by pushing the wrong button, this thing could really happen, be affordable, and actually be of some BENEFIT to the small independents...

[This message has been edited by outaframe (edited November 08, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by outaframe (edited November 08, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by outaframe (edited November 08, 2005).]
The administrator has disabled public write access.
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Time to create page: 0.278 seconds
attraction attraction
attraction
attraction
attraction
attraction